Bassist Chuck Rainey

We spent one week (rehearsing). Rhythm section, with Aretha, James Cleveland and his choir. When we got there, they were well prepared because all the music had already been chosen. The choir had no problem, Ken Lupper the organ player were already ready. And all those songs, they had probably already been singing anyway. The songs on that Amazing Grace album were all in the Gospel Pearls songbook and every black church sings those songs, every choir sings those songs, so they were well prepared. We worked six to seven hours a day when we got there. There, before we got there, they probably had choir rehearsal Mon, Wed. Fri, so we just rehearsed in church one week before the actual recording. By the way, they had two or three Arethas in that choir. They had some ladies in that choir who could get it just like Aretha.
	They had it going on big time. But right up front, most churches, especially black churches even today, the choir and band is extraordinarly good. James Cleveland was the head, but he definitely had the best group of people in that church. It was primarily a gay church and the choir was just immaculate. When I moved there, I did the Grammys seven years in a row and they had his choir and the choir was unbelievably good.
	Almost too much rehearsal. The rehearsal is like going to church on Sunday, it’s a happening. You had all the technical people around. I don’t remember where did the actual recording. Rehearsals were just rehearsing one song. Too much talking---and this is a musician talking---too much explanation of this, too much of that, James Cleveland had to make sure everyone understood it was his church, he was in charge. He was trying to protect his ground, but I don’t complain about that---it’s a thing, we were in Los Angeles and what else are we going to do? You want this to be as good as it possibly can. It was interesting to us to look at the singers, see how people carry themselves. They were all happy because it was something very special for them. Just a happy, probably over reheased. You’re there, so you got to do everything that comes out of the hat that day. Because Aretha Franklin is in town, Atlantic Records is in town, and it’s going to be a record. We did not know it was being videotaped. Probably if we had been a little more nosy, we would have known, but in those days, we were just playing. Not really noticing anything. Being a New Yorker with a week in Los Angeles, it was like “wow…”
	She had so many problems. Her brother was her manager and she’s very family oriented. Her daddy and her sister Carolyn were always around. Carolyn was a good friend of mine, but she could not shake that tambourine. Aretha reminds me a lot of Mahalia Jackson in that they come from an environment where they’re seen and not heard. Very cooperative. She came up being a star in the church you have some people who are quiet and accommodating---they know they’re the star, they know it’s all about them and for her she definitely was that way. I was with Aretha for three years and if I were to count the words I heard her say, other than singing, it couldn’t have been more than 200 words. She very seldom said anything. When she did, she said it hard and quick. Mahalia Jackson was the same way. Sat in the chair with her knees close together, with her arms folded in front of her. Honoring whatever. That was the way she was. I’ve never been around Aretha where I was, “Wow! Aretha?” I never saw that at all. She was very kind to me. We spoke very little--she would speak to the wives more than to the band. If you wanted to call her, forget it. It was like trying to call the President of the United States. “What do you want?” A wife could get to Aretha, but the band members…she really hard some hard times. Her brother was not the greatest manager in the world. I remember one time we were going to Detroit, her hometown, Cobalt Arena in Detroit. We knew at least two, three months ahead. And it must hold 8 to 10,000 and there were only 200 people there. And I don’t know how she thought about it, but to us, it was embarrassing for her. We were on salary, but she worked so little, once or twice a month, that I was able to be in her band and Roberta Flack’s at the same time, and so Roberta had to work around Aretha who didn’t work that much. We felt sorry for her, but that goes to show that her manager didn’t know how to promote, if they had the money, they chose not to. Most people we talked to didn’t know she would be there. A lot of things like that happened to her. She’d give the band money, but it wouldn’t get to us. I’m sure a lot happened to her that I’m not privy to.
	She came to me one time, I can’t remember where we were, and she sat down and said, “Chuck, don’t listen to me sing.’ I was listening to her, you can’t help it, she was at the apex of her voice. She knows what she does to the public and doesn’t want me to get entranced in what she was doing. Same with Bernard.
	Well, on songs like “How I Got Over,” [playing chords, ducking in, ducking out, commenting on himself ducking into high register with lower tones, but not frantic] where you have a good choir, good rhythm section and an excellent leader, you just go with what you hear. I was basically hearing everything I heard since I was 3, and being a member of her band, we were just free. I played guitar before I played bass, before I played guitar, I was a trumpet player, in college I was a baritone horn and I was a bass singer in the doo-wop era in a local singing group. Being in choirs, singing, being a typical Gemini. All my life that I’ve come up in music, I’ve been supporting something, knowing when to, and most importantly what not to do. I had to be in church every Sunday, so now that I’m a bass player…a lot of doo wop music is very church oriented. I’m going to back up…boogie woogie or things that were very rhythmic, my church was a family church and my cousins and uncles were musician and I’m telling you, my cousins could wing it in any key and sound like three or four people. Now, the bass I play only has four strings. However, because I played guitar and do have a feel for some kind of rhythm in more than one note…stuff like that…that particular album opened up where I came from up to the age of 12, hearing that music and singing those songs. If you really know a song, not trying to figure it out, not trying to keep up with the changes or read a chart, you play it differently. You play it without singing as opposed to looking at a chart where you have to learn it quickly. Especially if it’s out of the Gospel Pearl songbook, I listened to them all in different keys, different tempos. I heard that song my entire life, so I don’t have to think about where the changes are. Playing the bass, you’ve got to hit that G chord when it comes. You can’t be led to the change, especially if there’s something you’re familiar with. All of those songs, I knew them, so being free and happy at that time, just being free. I knew the song, I was very comfortable, I was in love with the rhythm section I was playing with and just mesmerized by the choir. They put forth so much energy.
	All of those choirs are very disciplined, most choirs, black or white church have to be disciplined. They weren’t just singing in their church, they went around to other areas, too. But James Cleveland was like, if he weren’t a preacher, he probably would be a dictator (laughs, but not too loudly). You didn’t just get into that choir because you were in church. You got into that choir…they got rid of people quicker than…trying to think of a parallel…very, very disciplined…the conductor is God, like in a symphony orchestra. The guy is God and you have to watch him and if he doesn’t think you’re watching him, you’re out of there. Because that’s his thing. A lot of choirs don’t need that conducting, that’s showmanship. Once a professional band gets the tempo, and it’s your band, you don’t need somebody standing up there dancing, that’s old fashioned, from the old church. They still do it, but it’s more showmanship. But that particular choir, if Alexander blinked his eye, somebody had something to do with that eye blink. Because if it’s not that way---everybody in church can’t be in the choir, a lot of people want to be in the choir because it gets a lot of attention. It’s very, very disciplined, like it should be. Like the orchestra. Like King Curtis’ band, we were very disciplined. If he dropped his horn in a certain way, we immediately stopped. About time, 9:00 means ten minutes to 9, I take that back, a quarter to nine. No smoking cigarettes in the car. He paid everybody, whether he got paid or not. He just took care of everybody, and I can tell with james Cleveland, did a lot of silent talking bout what we’re going to do now. A lot of down time, too.
	“Mary Don’t You Weep” is a standard. You got a first verse, second verses, third verse, fourth verse. The musicians inherently will play the second verse played upon what happened in the first verse. I remember what they did, I haven’t listened to the record in a long time, when they got it back to NY, I remember a situation nto too clear, but I remember the jist that Jerry felt the third verse should be where the second verse is. I’m trying to find a word for that…you can’t do that. Jerry Wexerl couldn’t dance, pop his fingers in time. And Jerry wanted to have something to do with everything. Very, very smart man. He’d come up to me with an air bass in his hand and would come up to me, there were people in the control room, would go to Cornell, you wouldn’t interefere with anything Richard Tee would do…he’d come up to me and want something different because I felt, somebody was watching him. And all I did was play something different htat fit. I didn’t have a problem. On this record, our job as musicians is to be a part of the flow. You don’t switch verses, not with that music. I was very, I believe, it was sacreligious. We played that song a thousand times, there, I’ve played it all my life and Aretha has sung it probably all her life. And not only did I hear it, but in conversation I herad him say he was going to put this here, put that there. But there’s time to go hom and sit down because there are certain people you debate with and certain people you don’t debate with. After all, the record was still a hit. And public didn’t know what was going on, but I didn’t care for them taking a song and switching verses around.